Comments on: Church Is Not God http://blog.amoslanka.com/2008/07/02/church-is-not-god/ Tue, 09 Mar 2010 17:30:44 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Defining Heresy « movement, movement http://blog.amoslanka.com/2008/07/02/church-is-not-god/#comment-631 Defining Heresy « movement, movement Mon, 18 Aug 2008 07:44:48 +0000 http://amoslanka.wordpress.com/?p=357#comment-631 [...] 2008 On Friday I wrote my first post in which I openly claim heresy instead of only guessing I may be accused of it. A few of the comments (thanks, by the way) both on the post and through email seemed more [...] [...] 2008 On Friday I wrote my first post in which I openly claim heresy instead of only guessing I may be accused of it. A few of the comments (thanks, by the way) both on the post and through email seemed more [...]

]]> By: subversivechurch http://blog.amoslanka.com/2008/07/02/church-is-not-god/#comment-392 subversivechurch Fri, 04 Jul 2008 02:36:44 +0000 http://amoslanka.wordpress.com/?p=357#comment-392 Jen, Just as a quick side note. My protest sign wasn't to be taken sarcastically, it is a perfectly resonable question to ask. -mike Jen,

Just as a quick side note. My protest sign wasn’t to be taken sarcastically, it is a perfectly resonable question to ask.

-mike

]]> By: amoslanka http://blog.amoslanka.com/2008/07/02/church-is-not-god/#comment-391 amoslanka Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:04:50 +0000 http://amoslanka.wordpress.com/?p=357#comment-391 Jen and Ash -- thanks much for weighing in. My response is <a href="http://blog.amoslanka.com/2008/07/03/a-response-on-questioning-conventional-wisdom/" rel="nofollow">here.</a> Jen and Ash — thanks much for weighing in. My response is here.

]]> By: A Response on Questioning Conventional Wisdom « movement, movement http://blog.amoslanka.com/2008/07/02/church-is-not-god/#comment-390 A Response on Questioning Conventional Wisdom « movement, movement Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:04:14 +0000 http://amoslanka.wordpress.com/?p=357#comment-390 [...] conversation, religion by amoslanka on July 3rd, 2008 Yet another response to the conversation here and [...] [...] conversation, religion by amoslanka on July 3rd, 2008 Yet another response to the conversation here and [...]

]]> By: Jen http://blog.amoslanka.com/2008/07/02/church-is-not-god/#comment-389 Jen Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:11:56 +0000 http://amoslanka.wordpress.com/?p=357#comment-389 i completely agree...and i think it's confusing...i have made some of those other points on the other post...going back and forth...also i think it's mis-read as i was referring to the concept of picketing with sarcastic signs. if you will read the other posts on subversivechurch blogs...i'm not saying don't question...my intent is really to challenge the attitude. not so much here...more on subversive. and my point that we want to change the image of the church...but my feeling is the effectiveness of the "storming the gates" mentality. when the motive is out of anger and not a desire to build and a love...it ceases to be a challenge to better the church and turns into just an attack. which i think creates an even worse image of the church. "It is worth looking into, examining and changing where necessary. " agreed...and stated in my above post. "Jesus said that we will know a person by their fruit, so when you state that it’s wrong to question whether or not they’re doing what “God said” for them to do- I think that statement is unfounded." here is where i already responded to that. ” honestly…that is out of context a little bit…in a conversation referring to picketing in front of the church…and read on with the other posts and you would see that i’m not saying we shouldn’t try and change the hurt areas of the church. the method of “storming the gates” at this point does seem hasty, foolish, and bluntly…immature. it was a little difficult to juggle both conversations…the one i was responding to you…and the other to subversive…which in my mind were really going in separate directions. that quote was in context to to my response to subversive (and picketing with sarcastic signs). you can read more under his post. so AGAIN...i have not at all implied "examination" and "change" is not necessary...simply the method at which we attain what we are searching for. maybe i just don't explain well... i completely agree…and i think it’s confusing…i have made some of those other points on the other post…going back and forth…also i think it’s mis-read as i was referring to the concept of picketing with sarcastic signs. if you will read the other posts on subversivechurch blogs…i’m not saying don’t question…my intent is really to challenge the attitude. not so much here…more on subversive. and my point that we want to change the image of the church…but my feeling is the effectiveness of the “storming the gates” mentality. when the motive is out of anger and not a desire to build and a love…it ceases to be a challenge to better the church and turns into just an attack. which i think creates an even worse image of the church.

“It is worth looking into, examining and changing where necessary. ”

agreed…and stated in my above post.

“Jesus said that we will know a person by their fruit, so when you state that it’s wrong to question whether or not they’re doing what “God said” for them to do- I think that statement is unfounded.”

here is where i already responded to that.

” honestly…that is out of context a little bit…in a conversation referring to picketing in front of the church…and read on with the other posts and you would see that i’m not saying we shouldn’t try and change the hurt areas of the church. the method of “storming the gates” at this point does seem hasty, foolish, and bluntly…immature. it was a little difficult to juggle both conversations…the one i was responding to you…and the other to subversive…which in my mind were really going in separate directions. that quote was in context to to my response to subversive (and picketing with sarcastic signs). you can read more under his post.

so AGAIN…i have not at all implied “examination” and “change” is not necessary…simply the method at which we attain what we are searching for. maybe i just don’t explain well…

]]> By: ash http://blog.amoslanka.com/2008/07/02/church-is-not-god/#comment-388 ash Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:19:58 +0000 http://amoslanka.wordpress.com/?p=357#comment-388 Jen, I think the idea is a lot simpler than what the conversation has made it to be. Jesus said that we will know a person by their fruit, so when you state that it's wrong to question whether or not they're doing what "God said" for them to do- I think that statement is unfounded. Jesus held the religious leaders of the day to a higher standard, and the Bible warns us of wanting to be leaders in the church. Granted I will not judge the humanity of Christian leaders b/c like Amos said, they're just as human as I am. BUT are Christians and their leaders giving church a bad name? It is worth looking into, examining and changing where necessary. The church to me is about community, and not the tradition of a 4 wall building w/ so many minutes of song and preaching and unfortunately, it is the tradition that has turned people away, b/c the tradition, the insititution madates rules and regulations and Christ is not about that at all. I'm not saying those things are necessarily wrong, but when they become the only image people see- well something is wrong. Leaders need to recognize it, the church needs to recognize and become real....humble and ready to change. Just my collective thoughts on the matter. Jen, I think the idea is a lot simpler than what the conversation has made it to be. Jesus said that we will know a person by their fruit, so when you state that it’s wrong to question whether or not they’re doing what “God said” for them to do- I think that statement is unfounded. Jesus held the religious leaders of the day to a higher standard, and the Bible warns us of wanting to be leaders in the church. Granted I will not judge the humanity of Christian leaders b/c like Amos said, they’re just as human as I am. BUT are Christians and their leaders giving church a bad name? It is worth looking into, examining and changing where necessary. The church to me is about community, and not the tradition of a 4 wall building w/ so many minutes of song and preaching and unfortunately, it is the tradition that has turned people away, b/c the tradition, the insititution madates rules and regulations and Christ is not about that at all. I’m not saying those things are necessarily wrong, but when they become the only image people see- well something is wrong. Leaders need to recognize it, the church needs to recognize and become real….humble and ready to change. Just my collective thoughts on the matter.

]]> By: Jen http://blog.amoslanka.com/2008/07/02/church-is-not-god/#comment-387 Jen Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:19:36 +0000 http://amoslanka.wordpress.com/?p=357#comment-387 i think you have completely missed my point, honestly. in reference to specifically billboards (which is what the post was about)...i understand you were talking about the "American Church" or the Americanization of the Church...BUT specifically that post was about billboards and my comments on the billboard support specifically the ministry being effective whether it's to believers or non. "Jen said in response that “it’s not up to me to say whether or not the ‘church is wrong’”. " honestly...that is out of context a little bit...in a conversation referring to picketing in front of the church...and read on with the other posts and you would see that i'm not saying we shouldn't try and change the hurt areas of the church. the method of "storming the gates" at this point does seem hasty, foolish, and bluntly...immature. it was a little difficult to juggle both conversations...the one i was responding to you...and the other to subversive...which in my mind were really going in separate directions. that quote was in context to to my response to subversive. you can read more under his post. i feel like i'm arguing the method...but the defense from you guys is that i'm arguing on behalf of the church and it's practices...seems that you have missed a few key points in my posts...like..."i agree". i do disagree on the method of "changing the church". and my whole point to subversive...and to you here...i'm not ignoring the things taht need change or just "Accepting it" "feeling good in my pew"...i am suggesting a different method other than anger motivated. i just believe there can a transition without busting down the doors assuming every megachurch pastor is corrupt. i defend the argument that God is using those churches for a purpose may not readily see...a purpose at this time we don't understand. so instead of rising up against...why not rise up with...respectfully and with the purpose to transition the church to what we hope it will be. working together, trying to promote the unity of Christians...trying to benefit the Church as a whole...and the Christian community. that's all. i just feel its hasty to throw the whole church under the bus at this point...without taking into account what God is doing...is setting into place. so "revolutionists" like yourself can pick it up and take it farther...make sense? (and yes i do think it is wrong to point fingers at the church leadership as a whole...question their agenda?? not wrong....point fingers and say they aren't doing what God told them to do? yeah...i think that's definitely not the right approach.) AGAIN...i don't question your mission...i question the motives and approach. i think you have completely missed my point, honestly. in reference to specifically billboards (which is what the post was about)…i understand you were talking about the “American Church” or the Americanization of the Church…BUT specifically that post was about billboards and my comments on the billboard support specifically the ministry being effective whether it’s to believers or non.

“Jen said in response that “it’s not up to me to say whether or not the ‘church is wrong’”. ” honestly…that is out of context a little bit…in a conversation referring to picketing in front of the church…and read on with the other posts and you would see that i’m not saying we shouldn’t try and change the hurt areas of the church. the method of “storming the gates” at this point does seem hasty, foolish, and bluntly…immature. it was a little difficult to juggle both conversations…the one i was responding to you…and the other to subversive…which in my mind were really going in separate directions. that quote was in context to to my response to subversive. you can read more under his post.

i feel like i’m arguing the method…but the defense from you guys is that i’m arguing on behalf of the church and it’s practices…seems that you have missed a few key points in my posts…like…”i agree”. i do disagree on the method of “changing the church”. and my whole point to subversive…and to you here…i’m not ignoring the things taht need change or just “Accepting it” “feeling good in my pew”…i am suggesting a different method other than anger motivated. i just believe there can a transition without busting down the doors assuming every megachurch pastor is corrupt. i defend the argument that God is using those churches for a purpose may not readily see…a purpose at this time we don’t understand. so instead of rising up against…why not rise up with…respectfully and with the purpose to transition the church to what we hope it will be. working together, trying to promote the unity of Christians…trying to benefit the Church as a whole…and the Christian community. that’s all. i just feel its hasty to throw the whole church under the bus at this point…without taking into account what God is doing…is setting into place. so “revolutionists” like yourself can pick it up and take it farther…make sense?

(and yes i do think it is wrong to point fingers at the church leadership as a whole…question their agenda?? not wrong….point fingers and say they aren’t doing what God told them to do? yeah…i think that’s definitely not the right approach.) AGAIN…i don’t question your mission…i question the motives and approach.

]]> By: Tyler http://blog.amoslanka.com/2008/07/02/church-is-not-god/#comment-386 Tyler Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:24:05 +0000 http://amoslanka.wordpress.com/?p=357#comment-386 Yeah I totally agree Amos. I think also though it is important to understand that the Bible talks greatly about the church (universal) was paid for by Christ's blood. Obviously this isn't local church, but local church plays a big role in universal church. Yeah I totally agree Amos. I think also though it is important to understand that the Bible talks greatly about the church (universal) was paid for by Christ’s blood. Obviously this isn’t local church, but local church plays a big role in universal church.

]]> By: subversivechurch http://blog.amoslanka.com/2008/07/02/church-is-not-god/#comment-382 subversivechurch Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:20:52 +0000 http://amoslanka.wordpress.com/?p=357#comment-382 Very articulate. Can I just just say, "What he said?" Very articulate. Can I just just say, “What he said?”

]]>